5.56 or 7.62

[Minister of Defense]

I was going to post at first and then I thought "redoubtable1 is on this forum now" so I decided to shut up and let the expert speak.

The only thing I might add is that I think that 5.56 is fine for mid range (300 m) shooting with iron sights.

Very true, you can get hits at 300m and beyond. But some lethality issues have cropped up in recent years. This gets into barrel lengths, rates of twist, and bullet weights; but if I had an option, I'd keep the 7.62x51 for ranges over 200m and 5.56 for shorter ranges. But if I had to pick one, I wouldn't feel under gunned with 5.56 out to 300m.

From what I've been reading, they've 'overstabilized' the 5.56 with a 9-in-1 twist(one twist of rifiling for every 9 inches of barrel) resulting is less tumble when it hits, thus, less energy transfer.  If I remember correct, 12-in-1 was in use for a long time.

[redoubtable1]

Considering your operations area, 7.62 seems to be the best option. Nice long open fields of fire. 7.62x51 is ballistically very similar to .30-06 (100fps difference at the muzzle.) It was designed as a direct replacement for the .30-06. Since you are also planning for a fixed defense, the weight of the ammo and limited magazine size won't be a problem. With proper fortification you could make a nice stand armed with M1As or FALs.

Unfortunately, I'm not available this weekend. I've got a prior commitment. But we can work something out in a few weeks.

[Minister of Defense]

Considering your operations area, 7.62 seems to be the best option. Nice long open fields of fire. 7.62x51 is ballistically very similar to .30-06 (100fps difference at the muzzle.) It was designed as a direct replacement for the .30-06. Since you are also planning for a fixed defense, the weight of the ammo and limited magazine size won't be a problem. With proper fortification you could make a nice stand armed with M1As or FALs.

Unfortunately, I'm not available this weekend. I've got a prior commitment. But we can work something out in a few weeks.

Thanks for your input, guys.  7.62 sort of decided on, any brand in particular?  I understand our local manufacturer, Olympic Arms, makes a 7.62 kit for the AR line.  Or would you reccommend someone else.  FALs and M1As?  Who makes those and would you happen to know the current market?  How about the HK knock-offs?  I'm going to stop in at Larry's on the way home and see what they have.

You make good points about weight and mag size.  Those were both factors that were making me lean a bit toward 7.62 in the first place, but it never hurts to get the opinions of folks who've made a living with them.

[Minister of Defense]

BTW, I took my 10-year-old to Cabela's yesterday, and she's fallen in love.  She wants her own bow, and she wants learn how to shoot.  I think the Ruger 10/22 is on the list for tonight.  IMHO, the best plinker out there.

[Minister of Defense]

Now, if I had my Aunt's farm(up the road from ours in another section of our valley) then I could justify a Barret 

Her farm is over 1k acres, and one section is about a mile across.

Did I mention we have deer, bear, beaver, trout, and the occasional cougar hanging about?

[General Scum]

Remind me again to keep any Cruenti Dei antagonisms very "in character".

As close as I come to defense at home is an occasional rumination on how easy it would be for any zombies or canabalistic predators in a post apocalyptic world  to crawl up our stucco walls to get to the second floor and catch us unawares.

Really not a defensible house at all.

[Mandala of Blood]

Now, if I had my Aunt's farm(up the road from ours in another section of our valley) then I could justify a Barret 

Her farm is over 1k acres, and one section is about a mile across.

Did I mention we have deer, bear, beaver, trout, and the occasional cougar hanging about?

Heck I can go to any hotel bar in Seattle and bag me a few cougars and you'll to get up Capitol Hill way for a bear!

[Gonnagle]

So... Guns don't kill people, Redoubtable1 and Minister of defense kill people.

[Averon Inc]

So... Guns don't kill people, Redoubtable1 and Minister of defense kill people.

Yes, and sometimes I even pay them to do it.....

[Gonnagle]

So... Guns don't kill people, Redoubtable1 and Minister of defense kill people.

Yes, and sometimes I even pay them to do it.....

He shoots! He scores!

[Minister of Defense]

Well, you can cross the Ruger 10/22 off my list.  Man! that is a fun gun to shoot.  My 10-year-old didn't do too bad for her first time shooting a rifle.  We were only shooting about 30 yards, and her groups were about 10-12 inches across.

I can highly reccommend the Ruger 10/22 to anyone who'd like to learn to shoot, or even to have a cheap gun to shoot. .22lr is dirt cheap.  We put about 2 or 3 hundred rounds through it this weekend, and Becky can't wait to shoot some more.

If you've never shot before and can't meet up with Redoubable1, find yourself a hunter's safety course in your locale, or an indoor gun range and ask them for instruction.

Redoubtable1, we need to plan a Saturday trip down to the farm so everyone get their fix of smokeless.

[Cyclometh]

I wouldn't mind heading out to squeeze off a few rounds. Been thinking about getting a pistol for plinking with.

[Minister of Defense]

I wouldn't mind heading out to squeeze off a few rounds. Been thinking about getting a pistol for plinking with.

Well, get on it!

Are you getting a pistol just for plinking, or would home defense be a consideration as well?

For my money, the pistol just for plinking would be the Ruger Mark III.  It shoots .22lr which, as I stated earlier, is dirt cheap to shoot.  I bought a box of 525 rounds for under $20, if I remember right.  They are just great guns, particularly the Bull Barrel model. 

If you want an anti-robbery device, I'd reccommend something in .40.  I like the Ruger 'P'series, but they currently don't have a .40 option.  Glocks perform well from the shooting I've done with them, but you have small children at home, and the 'safety-on-the-trigger' should be a concern.  It was when I bought my gun.  From what I've read, the .40 is a real nice compromise between the 9mm and .45.  It flies like a 9mm, but performs like a .45 when it hits with a bit less recoil than the .45.

Of course, your hands are so damn big, you may just want to go straight for the .50 Desert Eagle. ;-)

9mm is not too bad to shoot, at about $10 for a box of 50.  I'm not certain on other ammo, since I don't own any caliber other than .44 Magnum, and that is very expensive to shoot.  My .44 is a Taurus Tracker, which they call a 'Tackle Box' gun.  5-shot revolver on a very small frame.  The thought behind the gun is to give you Magnum firepower in a gun small enough to fit in your fishing tackle box in case the bear that's been smelling your fish decides its easier to take yours(and maybe a bit of you) then to get his own.  It can be pretty brutal to shoot.  It took me about 30 shots before I'd stop fliching every time I fired it.  The Tracker would probably look like a Derringer in your gorilla mits ;-)

On a political note, depending on who wins the presidential election, expect gun prices to jump in anticipation of a new gun ban.  I mean, really, who needs a gun in the first place.  If you're going to buy, I'd buy before the election.  And as many high capacity magazines as you can afford.

Any other thoughts out there?

[Gonnagle]

Regarding home defense- I was once involved in a lengthy discussion with some friends regarding the most intimidating weapon to confront an intruder with.
A .44 mag (Dirty Harry)?
A sawed-off 10-gauge (OK if you want to kill the people next door, too)?
Something with full-auto capacity (how many intruders are you expecting, anyway?) ?

My vote was for a running gasoline-powered 18" Stihl chainsaw. Granted, the range isn't as good, but it would take one hell of a man to try and take it away from you. Also, my gut feeling is that most people would hesitate to fire a gun and many home intruders would know that. But all you really have to do with a chainsaw is stand there and let him calculate the odds. Not to mention the low probability of a chainsaw ban regardless of the political climate.

Yes, yes, I know all the "but if HE has a gun, you're fooked" arguments. But just imagine the expression on the guy's face (while he still has a face).

[Minister of Defense]

Probably your best best for home defense really is a pump action shotgun, loaded with rounds that are less likely to overpenatrate and hit someone behind the bad guy or in the next room.  A 9mm or even a .44 is likely to go through several walls, if not exit the house entirely depending on what it hits.  Drawback?  If the bad guy has taken a hostage, I wouldn't want to take a shot.  I'd think about taking a shot with my 9mm.  I'm not confident enough with the .44 to risk that kind of a shot.

Plus to the shotgun?  Its the orininal point-and-click interface.  Not to mention the 'click-clak' of that slde working is guranteed to get someone's attention.