5.3.1.4.2 International Trade- Request for addition for Intercontinental Trade

[Free Beer]

In your example of the Silk Road, I think the existing rules still bear me out. The Trade Road rule represents the Silk Road in this case and the cities were important not just for their intrinsic value but also for the access to international trading partners via the trade road.

The British colonized India not just for India's products but also to trade with all of Asia. In game terms they didn't just get the cities and regions but also they were able to trade with China who had a high trade value.

Having a monopoly on a continent is great. You get trading partners that no one has access to and this is represented by revenue from international trade.

BTW, I not disputing that these products were not important, that trade didn't drive expansion or that a monopoly does not increase the value of the products. I just think the current rules cover what you are talking about.

[kolgrim]

I wonder if something like this would be most easily represented in a slight TV bump. Something like +3 for the first, +2 for the second, and +1 for the third, and these remain as long as those realms have a region or trade post on the new continent. Perhaps less lucrative right off the bat, but more easily tracked, and the advantage doesn't diminish over time.

[Mandala of Blood]

I do not think you have a bad idea here Theo, I am just not sure it is practical. Perhaps a simpler and more workable GP Bonus would be for Thom to allow Economic Colleges.  Realm would get a certain bonus depending on the level of the College and leaders who attend the College would give a GP bonus to the region they are in based on the level of the Economic College they attended.

Honestly, I don't know if the thought even 'fits' with the kind off pared down thing CD is philosophically about.  Or with higher NSRs and technology do we get more layers of rules to represent the complexity of society?  I don't really know.

Heck, I could see the same situation with the Yani as essentially being exotic and a turn or two of big prices for anything from them and them buying large quantities of surface goods which provides big taxes and then a fast die off.  Dunno.

BTW if you're not familiar with the Tulip Mania here you go
 "At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble"

[Ryushi]

BTW if you're not familiar with the Tulip Mania here you go
 "At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble"

if anything, this would be seen as an event thom would throw at us. Theres no way to 'artificially' create a demand, with the exception of how the English forced early American colonies to buy English tools and materials.

[Mandala of Blood]

Artifically?  You're right. 

Naturally?  Absolutely.  It's happened many times but is it in the scope of 'things we do'?  Dunno.

I'm gonna search for more LOTR LEGOs.

[Ryushi]

Naturally?  Absolutely.  It's happened many times but is it in the scope of 'things we do'?  Dunno.

Hard to say. I think some of the biggest things that would effect this would be what commodities they are, and what use they have.

[Mandala of Blood]

Naturally?  Absolutely.  It's happened many times but is it in the scope of 'things we do'?  Dunno.

Hard to say. I think some of the biggest things that would effect this would be what commodities they are, and what use they have.

You could go that route or simply quantify it into a general increase or decrease in trade volume.  We've already had a credit crunch that reduced trade but we've never had an event that Increases trade income in our favor.  Thom being a sourpuss or not the right factors being hit?

[Free Beer]

Naturally?  Absolutely.  It's happened many times but is it in the scope of 'things we do'?  Dunno.

Hard to say. I think some of the biggest things that would effect this would be what commodities they are, and what use they have.

You could go that route or simply quantify it into a general increase or decrease in trade volume.  We've already had a credit crunch that reduced trade but we've never had an event that Increases trade income in our favor.  Thom being a sourpuss or not the right factors being hit?

While it didn't raise TV, the Rennaisance effect sure did raise QRs.

Yes, my glass is half full. 

[Ryushi]

You could go that route or simply quantify it into a general increase or decrease in trade volume.  We've already had a credit crunch that reduced trade but we've never had an event that Increases trade income in our favor.  Thom being a sourpuss or not the right factors being hit?

If anything, i could see a straight TV increase the more continents you trade with. This would represent a straight market and value increase to a realms goods.

[Iluvarian Sakkar]

The main problem with the “supply and demand” is the internal supply chain is not always functionable. Within the Empire, there is no way to control trade agreements. There is no Empire wide trade policy so the supply and demand theory is invalid. Your “new’” products are only good to those that are willing to continue to trade with your realm.

Secondly, this theory would have to include any new products within the Empire also. Any RP of a different product would require this same modification to trade.

[Mandala of Blood]

The main problem with the “supply and demand” is the internal supply chain is not always functionable. Within the Empire, there is no way to control trade agreements. There is no Empire wide trade policy so the supply and demand theory is invalid. Your “new’” products are only good to those that are willing to continue to trade with your realm.

Secondly, this theory would have to include any new products within the Empire also. Any RP of a different product would require this same modification to trade.

Not quite as invalid as you think my good man.  Did not Christian European nobility buy Chinese silks from Venetian merchants who themselves purchased them from Jewish merchants who themselves purchased these items from Oriental Muslim merchants who themselves purchased them at the 20th remove from some silk factor in Chonqing? 

Wealth has a way of working.  Plus there are trade policies in Sahul.  Riverine trade and oceanic trade protection being duly protected from Piracy and interference.

If trade can be bolloxed by player actios then trade should also be able to be bolstered by player actions.  I've RPed with Thom and he's a bit stingy with the loot at times....but pretty quick with the axe.  Gentle reminders et al.

[Iluvarian Sakkar]

Riverine trade and oceanic trade protection being duly protected from Piracy and interference.

I would like to see where we have a policy for interference but agree with riverine trade but my comments are about continuous trade relationships. (Yes, I know I have a failing grade in trade relationships which only shows that my attempt to RP needs more attention, not that we should not continue to try.)

Also, your example of the trading relationships in Europe would have been multiple realms getting the wealth benefit and not just the realm that introduced the original "new" products. Would all Sahul realms or every realm that is trading with another get this same increase which would negate the original request for a few realms getting this increase revenue?

And I agree that in a future Sahul, with a new level of technology (and a free trade enviroment) this increase revenue would be okay. My agreement would be with the new technology being instead of just new products.

[Mandala of Blood]

Your point about all the realms sharing in the wealth is a good one.  Perhaps it would spread like the NSR and SOR academy bumps spread or how the financial clusterfrak did?  Or simply a one or two turn bump?  Good suggestions.

[Free Beer]

I would submit in your example of the Christian nobility purchasing Chinese silks from the Venetian merchants you actually demonstrate the  point that it was the merchants that noticed the windfall and not the government. Certainly the tax revenue would have increased but would have had a dramatic effect on the annual revenue? It seems unlikely.

In my opinion this same effect would be realized by the Venetians being able to trade that the Christian realms could not.

[Wombatia]

Hmmm then maybe it's time to start looking at training a new academy that's designed around finances and the mercantile profession to train leaders as merchants. Maybe they can go overseas with a special action and do something like 'set up trade district'?