5.3.1.4.2 International Trade- Request for addition for Intercontinental Trade

[Mandala of Blood]

Trade between continents brings a great volume of new products and new markets for any kingdom or realm.  We have been RPing it on the boards for some time.  Coffee, Tobacco, Kura Feathers, fruits, dyes, hides, art, gems etc. 

But what value is it to the realm itself?  I propose that any realm trading inter-continentally should receive a multiplier or bonus to their trade value to represent these exotic goods.  That multiplier would wind down with the number of realms that are trading from that same continent  as the goods become more available and then simply common due to a flooded market.

There really isn't much financial incentive to colonize or expand other than real estate which you then generally have to build up anyway.  Where is the wealth through trade?

What multipliers do you think would be realistic?  Should it be for a set number of turns or until a set number of players are trading between those continents? 

What do you think?

[Mandala of Blood]

My proposal is this:

Realms trading Intercontinentally should gain the following bonuses
1.  Any Trade income is Multiplied by the following list:
       a) You are the ONLY realm trading between two particular continents:  Multiply all international trade by 1.5 to represent the monopoly on new goods.
       b) You are one of Three realms trading between two continents:  Multiply by 1.25
       c) You are trading at all intercontinentally:  Multiply Trade by 1.1 to represent breadth of goods.

There is precedent for this in the Sahulian economic meltdown of 10 turns ago when everyone had to reduce their income by a certain multiplier due to a credit issue.

This would be the reverse of that already created game mechanic.   Internationally trading realms would also give the realms outside 'core economic areas' some sort of leverage.  It worked for England and Portugal....

[Mandala of Blood]

Polite *bump*

[Wombatia]

I like your initial idea. Especially how the modifier decreases as more and more realms begin to trade overseas.

[Mandala of Blood]

I like your initial idea. Especially how the modifier decreases as more and more realms begin to trade overseas.

Is there another way we could represent this concept perhaps more clearly?  My main thought is that colonization and continental expansion are disincentivized because there is really only cost and all returns are quite marginal.  A simple set of continental trade multipliers might sort that out quickly. 

[Free Beer]

I think the current rules cover the rewards of colonization quite well.

1. Taxation of colonists and/or locals: Represented in Regional Revenue (GP & AP)
2. Tariffs on trade goods: Internal and International trade
3. Slavery of locals: Slave Raid action
4. Theft: Pillage or Raid action
5. New Markets: Trade Conduits, More trading partners, Increased Trade Value

[Wombatia]

I think the current rules cover the rewards of colonization quite well.

1. Taxation of colonists and/or locals: Represented in Regional Revenue (GP & AP)
2. Tariffs on trade goods: Internal and International trade
3. Slavery of locals: Slave Raid action
4. Theft: Pillage or Raid action
5. New Markets: Trade Conduits, More trading partners, Increased Trade Value

It definitely does, but long term sees diminishing returns. I think that's what Theo is going for.

[Free Beer]

I think the current rules cover the rewards of colonization quite well.

1. Taxation of colonists and/or locals: Represented in Regional Revenue (GP & AP)
2. Tariffs on trade goods: Internal and International trade
3. Slavery of locals: Slave Raid action
4. Theft: Pillage or Raid action
5. New Markets: Trade Conduits, More trading partners, Increased Trade Value

It definitely does, but long term sees diminishing returns. I think that's what Theo is going for.

His proposal has diminished returns long-term as more realms establishing contact reduce the value.

Also, I dispute the assertion that the current rules have diminished long-term returns. In fact, I would claim the opposite is true as more time allows for expansion of the colonies in both regions and urbanization.

[Ryushi]

His proposal has diminished returns long-term as more realms establishing contact reduce the value.

Also, I dispute the assertion that the current rules have diminished long-term returns. In fact, I would claim the opposite is true as more time allows for expansion of the colonies in both regions and urbanization.

I gotta agree with this. I mean theres a lot for colonies already, including increased AP GP and NFP. Plus the ability to build more troops in said regions.

[Wombatia]

I think the current rules cover the rewards of colonization quite well.

1. Taxation of colonists and/or locals: Represented in Regional Revenue (GP & AP)
2. Tariffs on trade goods: Internal and International trade
3. Slavery of locals: Slave Raid action
4. Theft: Pillage or Raid action
5. New Markets: Trade Conduits, More trading partners, Increased Trade Value

It definitely does, but long term sees diminishing returns. I think that's what Theo is going for.

His proposal has diminished returns long-term as more realms establishing contact reduce the value.

Also, I dispute the assertion that the current rules have diminished long-term returns. In fact, I would claim the opposite is true as more time allows for expansion of the colonies in both regions and urbanization.

Sorry Paul. It looks like we're agreeing and talking past each other. I guess I misread what you typed.

[Free Beer]

I think the current rules cover the rewards of colonization quite well.

1. Taxation of colonists and/or locals: Represented in Regional Revenue (GP & AP)
2. Tariffs on trade goods: Internal and International trade
3. Slavery of locals: Slave Raid action
4. Theft: Pillage or Raid action
5. New Markets: Trade Conduits, More trading partners, Increased Trade Value

It definitely does, but long term sees diminishing returns. I think that's what Theo is going for.

His proposal has diminished returns long-term as more realms establishing contact reduce the value.

Also, I dispute the assertion that the current rules have diminished long-term returns. In fact, I would claim the opposite is true as more time allows for expansion of the colonies in both regions and urbanization.

Sorry Paul. It looks like we're agreeing and talking past each other. I guess I misread what you typed.

I often do that. 

[Mandala of Blood]

No my position is based purely on supply and demand. When you have monopolistic control on the imporation and sale of rare products then you will make quite a lot of money. 

For example:  Silks, plate, jade, ceramics, artwork, and luxury spices and exotics like tea.  The entire Silk Road was created to bring these items from the East to the West at tremendous profit.  Control of the Decapoline ports and later the Roman/Arab ports to control this trade was a massive issue.  Later colonies were established up and the oceanic equivalent of the Silk Road to connect East and West to control the profit of these goods which were not obtainable locally. 

That is why I pose the suggestion that when a realm has the ability to bring new products to market that there should be a reward for that in the form of a trade multiplier.  Once more realms have access to the goods the premium price will wear off until those products are regularly and widely available at which point the goods merely become luxuries rather than exotics. 

I'm not saying we get to Tulip Crisis levels of Dutch pandemonium but there is a reason The British Empire took over India.  It was not for their city taxes alone which largely were used to support the local nobility and defray military costs.  It was for the importation of goods.

In game tersm we have Kura feathers, spices, dinosaur hides, exotic treats, artwork, tobacco...whatever is local.  I think it rewards looking afar as great riches for the first arrivals has generally been the impetus for expansion of a realm.  If you made as much money by builing another village down the road where then is the need to explore?

[Ryushi]

The thing is though that most of the goods for trade are RP. So while Kuroa has a big thing with Kura feathers, Yani has thing for jewlery, Tokatl has fashion, and Ingazi has cheese. These don't necessarily translate into game values, but something we can build on for our realms. And at the same time, just because there is a supply, doesnt mean there is a demand. So dinosaur dung may be an awesome fertilizer, I doubt many would be willing to ship or buy large quantities of it, just as an example.

[Galen]

I doubt many would be willing to ship or buy large quantities of it, just as an example.

I am sure the ship captains would charge a premium for the fragrant cargo. 

I agree with Ryushi I think in concept it is a good idea and in real world you are correct. However how do you breakdown who has a rare commodity and who doesn't and what those commodity are. In game terms I do not think it is practical, I would rather Thom figuring out the turn then who gets a bonus 20 GP because they trade something different. 

[Galen]

I do not think you have a bad idea here Theo, I am just not sure it is practical. Perhaps a simpler and more workable GP Bonus would be for Thom to allow Economic Colleges.  Realm would get a certain bonus depending on the level of the College and leaders who attend the College would give a GP bonus to the region they are in based on the level of the Economic College they attended.