5.5.1.6.3 Siege Units

[Mandala of Blood]

Can Siege Units be used to dig tunnels/caverns etc as per the Work Points rules in Supplement 2_v3 section 4.4.2.2 "Digging". 

YS units are essentially SE units of greatly reduced cost.

My proposed solution? 

1.  Yes, SE may perform the same actions as YS
2.  That overlands leaders trained as Engineers may conduct surveys but others may not. 
3.  That SE perform 1 work point per unit per turn.
4.  That the 'Dig" spell when cast be assigned a number of 'work units' per casting.

[redoubtable1]

Doesn't that kind of take the "special" out of special units?

[Ryushi]

Can Siege Units be used to dig tunnels/caverns etc as per the Work Points rules in Supplement 2_v3 section 4.4.2.2 "Digging". 

YS units are essentially SE units of greatly reduced cost.

My proposed solution? 

1.  Yes, SE may perform the same actions as YS
2.  That overlands leaders trained as Engineers may conduct surveys but others may not. 
3.  That SE perform 1 work point per unit per turn.
4.  That the 'Dig" spell when cast be assigned a number of 'work units' per casting.

YS can dig tunnels because thats where they live. They have been doing it for hundreds, if not thousands of generations. Thats not something you can really 'train' at an college, but it is good to see where your priorities lie   

[Mandala of Blood]

Doesn't that kind of take the "special" out of special units?

Nope.  They're still cheaper, they have magic resistance, "more effective", and "harder to kill".  They still have all their bonuses.  I don't see the engineering as what makes them special.  It is these other qualities that make them special. 

For example:  Hive Forts are better than Field Forts but does not mean that Field Forts cannot be built.  The concpet of digging is neither culturally or technically unique.  It's merely a form of project.

[redoubtable1]

So heavy cavalry should be the same as Saurian catiphracti?

Or light infantry should be the same as human Rangers?

[Mandala of Blood]

So heavy cavalry should be the same as Saurian catiphracti?

Or light infantry should be the same as human Rangers?

Those aren't correct comparisons because that's not the question.

The question more appropriately is "Can Siege units dig large holes in the ground".  Not as you seem to be saying "Can SE gain magic immunity, or be harder to kill, or deadlier" which is where I think you're going.

[redoubtable1]

You misunderstand me. YS have the skill of making large stable tunnels deep underground. It's a function of their kindred. Same as Saurian Catiphracti. Wenemet can't build them and they are the most damaging cavalry unit. SP are human only and they get a move cost of 1 for all terrain. Yamion get to dig holes better than anyone else.

SE would probably be able to dig some tunnels, undermine some castle walls, carve a canal, etc. But they probably wouldn't be effective digging a large tunnel that wouldn't collapse at the depths at which the Yamion live.

I might suggest your next trollspawn be based on dachshunds. 

[Ryushi]

Those aren't correct comparisons because that's not the question.

The question more appropriately is "Can Siege units dig large holes in the ground".  Not as you seem to be saying "Can SE gain magic immunity, or be harder to kill, or deadlier" which is where I think you're going.

Yea, OR you could pay the Yani player to do it for you 

[Mandala of Blood]

You misunderstand me. YS have the skill of making large stable tunnels deep underground. It's a function of their kindred. Same as Saurian Catiphracti. Wenemet can't build them and they are the most damaging cavalry unit. SP are human only and they get a move cost of 1 for all terrain. Yamion get to dig holes better than anyone else.

SE would probably be able to dig some tunnels, undermine some castle walls, carve a canal, etc. But they probably wouldn't be effective digging a large tunnel that wouldn't collapse at the depths at which the Yamion live.

I might suggest your next trollspawn be based on dachshunds. 

No, I see what you're saying but I disagree.  I have made units in this game.  I know fairly well what is the 'special' part of a unit and what are not.  The 'Special' part is composed of their speed, efficacy, and reduced costs.  What is not 'special' is the tunnelling and works portion (at least that is my contention).  

No civilization cannot copy the merely technical feats of any other.  Printing presses, freeways, deep mining, and high grade steel can all be learned, copied, or reverse engineered.  This is purely technical and not special.  

In fact it would be good to turn all Megalithic construction costs into Work Points.

[redoubtable1]

Wenemet realms CANNOT build a cavalry unit with the same capabilities as a Saurian realm. That is a technological issue. (Wenemet can't learn to ride whatever it is the Saurians ride?)

Only Human realms can build an infantry unit that has a move cost on any terrain. That is a technological issue. (No one but humans can learn to adapt to various terrain and move efficiently?)

Hive forts, which are better defenses than field forts, can only be built by the Malebolge. (No one else can learn how to build a conventional fortification to model a hive fort's defensive capabilities?)

Deep tunneling and underground works are something that is a technology issue for which the Yamion have a special affinity.

Some units are just restricted by kindred. Sappers would be one of those.

[Sardarthion]

Can Siege Units be used to dig tunnels/caverns etc as per the Work Points rules in Supplement 2_v3 section 4.4.2.2 "Digging". 

Not at this time.

[Mandala of Blood]

Can Siege Units be used to dig tunnels/caverns etc as per the Work Points rules in Supplement 2_v3 section 4.4.2.2 "Digging". 

Not at this time.

Ah.  I see where this is going.  Cultural vectors for the win!

[Ryushi]

3.  That SE perform 1 work point per unit per turn.

Something else is that if SE did the same work as YS, then there would be no point to me getting YS. I mean since they are the only once that could do the work, then there would have to be way more SE since YS are more expensive.

[Averon Inc]

all this talk of mining got me thinking about this horrible song from the seventies, my pain is now yours..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNdvKvbxYQ